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Lloyd is nowhere near as good as Buddy Franklin
He is no where near as good as Buddy Franklin.....Pull your pants down Matty....
By Jayne (Hawks supporter), 28 Dec 2007 8:42
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Andrew (Hawks supporter), 7 Jul 2008 11:40, Last Reply: 9 Jul 2008 0:28 hide comment
well i'm going to buy into the debate.... but unlike the majority of you who have posted I've actually done some research.
Just for the record, especially for Steve, Buddy isn't actually a CHF, they just name him there on the team sheet, he's spends alot of time in the forward fifty and plays the traditional FF role a lot, but he does run up the ground a bit especially this season and he's won games because of it.... Adelaide for example....
But let me throw in some stats
Lloyd's first season he only played 5 games averaging 1.4 goals and 1.2 behind per game on the other hand Buddy played 20 averaging 1.0 goal per game and .6 behind per game but he also averaged 10.6 touches a game and 2 tackles in his first season to Lloyd's 9.4 and .2 tackles a game.
Now I'm going to work on their averages a fair bit....
2001 was probably Lloydies best season, he kicked 105 goals in 21 games and got, that's an average of 5.0 goals a game, 15 brownlow votes, his accuracy was amazing he only kicked 36 behinds which is basically freaking off the charts, 1.7 behinds per game, totalling 6.7 shots per game. he averaged 14 touches per game that season as well but only 1.1 tackles a game.
Now compair this to Buddy's current season. he's averaging 4.7 goals per game and 3.5 behinds. not including a few out on the fulls that's 8.2 shots on goal per game. He's currently averaging 15.6 touches a game and 1.9 tackles. This only Buddy's 4th season, 2001 was Lloyd's 7th but comparitively they are around the same age. But in Lloyd's 4th season he kicked a total of 70 goals and he played 23 games, this season we've seen 14 games and buddy has nailed 66 (and that's only because of his nightmare accuracy).
For me I've never been a big fan of Lloyd, he's brilliant on a set shot but when i watch him it seems to me that he's not too interested in the ball unless it hits him on the chest (obviously that's an exaggeration so don't get your nickers ina knot) and his kick to mark ration and handball/tackle stats kind of support that.
When I watch Buddy he's a different player, he's very free flowing, he's interested in the ball that's on the ground, this season he's got twice as many kicks to marks per game which tells me he's doing a bit of ground work as well and you can't tell me that he's not an "excitement-machine".
I'm not going to pass judgement on who's better, but another factor is the new hands in the back rules.... Lloydy didn't have them for most of his career, he was one of the pioneers of the little shove in the back just before the ball arrived. now days backline stategy is far more advanced and practiced than ten years ago, the flood is bread and butter of defense, only ten years ago it was different. Lloyd is closer to a tradition full forward like Plugger, Dunstall and Hudson than Buddy. Buddy has had to play a different kind of roll to get goals.....
I won't pass judgement because it would cause an uproar, but look at the stats, look at the way the game is harder on forwards now (and you can't tell me it isn't) and think for yourself........
1 reply show reply
Nick from Melbourne (Bombers supporter), 9 Jul 2008 0:28hide comment
Nice to see that someone's done their research. I will say that Franklin is probably the more exciting player to watch, and obviously more fit now than I'd say Lloyd has ever been; in the role of FF, I'd still have to say that Lloyd is the better of the two, if only because of Franklin's accuracy, but if you're looking at performance further down the ground then Franklin would be the better of the two due to his athleticism.

One question though, what makes you think that the game is harder on forwards now? The hands in the back rule has given leading forwards a huge advantage. It's pretty widely accepted that forwards get an easier ride now than they did 10 years ago.

Christopher from Melbourne (Magpies supporter), 7 Jul 2008 16:04, Last Reply: 8 Jul 2008 17:09 hide comment
I say Lloyd is better than Franklin
Tip for all you budding dream teamers take out Franklin and put in Lloyd.
Also compair what Matthew Lloyd did in year 2000 into this arguement. Back then Lloyd was a simular age to what Franklin is now. So I say to conclude this arguement compaire the best season of each player and lets decide on that who is better. Clearly right now Franklin is better but... Lloyd at his best I think was better than what Franklin is now.
Someone with a stats comparison can confirm this as I certainly cannot be certain but this is certainly a far from over debate!
1 reply show reply show full conversation (4 total)
Andrew (Hawks supporter), 8 Jul 2008 11:55, Last Reply: 8 Jul 2008 17:09 hide comment
i picked his 2001 season because it was better than his 2000 season.
He kicked more goals in 2001 but wasn't as accurate and played more games.
1 reply show reply
Christopher from Melbourne (Magpies supporter), 8 Jul 2008 12:08, Last Reply: 8 Jul 2008 17:09 hide comment
I'm an unbiast judge in this discussion as I don't support the team of either player. But it would be interesting to see if Franklin can get more goals than Lloyd did back in his prime. Lloyd was probably a simular age maybe slightly older but still when the season ends would be a good 1 to look at. Lloyd is more so a classic full forward in that he played on the lead and now teams know how to counter such play. However it seems that teams are yet to adapt to Franklins strong overhead marking whether the solution is the get players back in time to spoil or what but when Franklin is figured out will be interesting to see how far he falls or whether he can continue this dominant footy.

But in all seriousness take Franklin out of your Dream Teams and put Lloyd in, you can all thank me later

1 reply show reply
Andrew (Hawks supporter), 8 Jul 2008 15:15, Last Reply: 8 Jul 2008 17:09 hide comment
seriously don't have either in your dream team.....
Chuck Browny or Aker in!
1 reply show reply
Christopher from Melbourne (Magpies supporter), 8 Jul 2008 17:09hide comment
I put Browny in just before he got the good goal hauls also Aker at the start of the season.
I got Ablett as captain though might trade him if soon.
Griffin was another good 1 for me from the start.
Same with Paul Medhurst
Bryce Gibbs also hasn't been that bad for me.
Lloyd I just recently traded in for Franklin, Franklin is worth so much and I think Lloyd will go up.
I got my ruck division real cheap with: Leuenberger, Kreuzer, Sandilands and Simmonds.
My backline has been my let down with tons of inconsistent there.
And Judd hasn’t been great for me either.
So mine aint perfect.
John from Melbourne (Bulldogs supporter), 8 Jul 2008 12:21hide comment
I've never suppported either team. All I can say to you is it is early days yet. Come back to me when Buddy's reached 850 career goals, then we'll see who's better. Also, is he as good as Richo, who manages to average 3 goals a game despite playing in a crappy team??
Christopher from Melbourne (Magpies supporter), 8 Jul 2008 12:11hide comment
I think Fev v Franklin would be an interesting comparison for the end of the season. Clearly this season Franklin is superior to Lloyd but Fev v Franklin we will have to see what at the end of the season who wins the coleman medal. Browny is also comming good and always seems to get good for the 2nd half of the season so he in comming weeks will get better stats and more goals than Franklin.
Kim from Melbourne (Bombers supporter), 7 Jul 2008 15:29hide comment
Obviously an unfair comparison when even Magpies supporters are defending Lloyd. Have a look at the stats. Fev is in there too.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459491
Nick from Melbourne (Bombers supporter), 28 Jun 2008 19:00, Last Reply: 3 Jul 2008 16:36 hide comment
Firstly, it's stupid to try and compare players at different stages of their respective careers and claim that one is better than the other

Secondly, comparing across such a large time gap is often difficult due to the changes in rules (forwards are at much more of an advantage now than they were 10 years ago).

Thirdly, even if you were to compare the two at their primes, despite the quite different states of the game you would find that Lloyd is still the better player.

Hopefully this helps alleviate your one-eyed idiocy. It may well be that Franklin goes on to be a better player than Lloyd, for that to happen though I think he needs to change more than just his game (i.e. his horribly inconsistent kicking) but also his arrogant showmanship and poor attitude. If he can do that, than feel free to talk him up all you want, just don't hold your breath.

1 reply show reply
Steve from Melbourne (Blues supporter), 3 Jul 2008 16:36hide comment
I totally agree. It is like the old Silvagni v Scarlett arguement. You can't compare two players playing under such diferent rules.

Plus, Lloyd is a Full Forward and Buddy is a Centre Half Forward.

Carey (Cats supporter), 3 Jul 2008 11:51hide comment
yeh buddy has a long way to go..
Matt from Melbourne (Saints supporter), 29 Jun 2008 11:18hide comment
hahaha. had to read the heading twice coz i couldnt beilive how dumb u would have to be to post a topic like that.
buddy mite get better eventaully but lloyd consistantly won games of his own boot. he and james hird were essendon. along with a lot of other good players but those 2 were wat made them the complete package in 2000
Jenny from Adelaide (Crows supporter), 29 Jun 2008 10:52hide comment
Said by a one eye Hawks supporter...but hey I have to disagree completely with your one sided bias comment.
Mark from Collie (Crows supporter), 28 Jun 2008 21:08hide comment
Great call nicholas. Trying to compare players at different stages of their careers is plain and simply stupid. Buddy is still young so you can't even consider him a champion until he proves it. Sure he is a champion in the making but he has done nowhere near enough or for long enough to earn that regard. Also with the rule changes these days Lloyd probably would have kicked 3000 goals if he was in his prime in today's football. You can't do anything as a defender today so it's much easier for forwards to kick goals. Comparing players at different stages of their careers is dumb. Stupid discussion
Aaron from Perth (Blues supporter), 28 Jun 2008 20:22hide comment
When Lloyd was in his prime he was by far a better full forward than Buddy. Don't get me wrong Buddy is dam good, however he has rules that favour fowards and has 2 other spearheads to take the focus from him.
Time will tell if Buddy is as good when he is 30.
However Buddy today is far better than Lloyd today
Jake from Melbourne (Bombers supporter), 28 Jun 2008 17:38hide comment
pfft u must be a lil 9 year old....lloyd is (was) way better then franklin...franklin cant kick straight for ****....by the end of both their carears....lloyd will have more goals then franklin...franklin will have more behinds!
Daniel from Adelaide (Magpies supporter), 28 Jun 2008 17:04hide comment
this is a stupid post really.
Lloyd in his first few years was better then were Franklin is right now.
Lloyd could kick straight where Franklin cant kick straight and the rules now advantage Franklin way more then when Lloyd started.
Franklin could end up being the better player at the end of his career but lets see if Franklin kicks 800 goals
Kevin from Melbourne (Magpies supporter), 28 Jun 2008 15:01hide comment
Don't criticize the former Coleman medalist!!!
He's good and has kicked 861 goals for the last 13 years!
Heath (Bombers supporter), 29 Dec 2007 12:31, Last Reply: 30 Dec 2007 19:19 hide comment
trent croad has fat legs!!!!! haha. Buddy is an overnight success!
1 reply show reply show full conversation (2 total)
Bree (Dockers supporter), 30 Dec 2007 18:15, Last Reply: 30 Dec 2007 19:19 hide comment
Hahhahaha Buddy is no where near Lloyd yet! He is a great player but needs a few more years before you can compare the 2!!!
1 reply show reply
Matthew from Melbourne (Bombers supporter), 30 Dec 2007 19:19hide comment
they are very different players. the only hawthorn player like lloyd is dunstall and they probably be each other's equal though lloyd has played in a harder era for forwards with flooding.
Disclaimer: The comments above were added by Facebook AFL club supporters and do not reflect the opinions of Footywire.com.
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